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healthystarch · 2012-04-20, 05:36:46

Interesting article from the guys at mnmlssg.

http://mnmlssg.blogspot.com/2012/04/why-...tters.html

Quote:One of the great threats to our music is the space that we need disappearing. Gentrification is the hidden killer of techno music. The spaces where we can listen, dance and enjoy music are slowly being eaten away. Clubs are disappearing as more and more apartment blocks and shops appear everywhere. More noise complaints, stricter licensing laws, property developers - these are things that will be taking away our places to dance and share the music we love. So what exactly does this have to do with EDM? I want to suggest there are two main ways that EDM can negatively impact upon this dynamic. The first is the point I suggested above - that EDM is becoming taken to be representative of what electronic music is, which I think most of us would agree is a deeply misleading situation, one that further increases misunderstanding and miscomprehension over what electronic music is and how it operates. If people think that electronic music equals Steve Aoki, it is hard to mount a convincing argument for why it is something that should be respected, funded, supported and granted social space for...

Fifstar · 2012-04-20, 12:48:17

Ehh, seems more like a rant against a certain type of pop and electro crossover artist - Skrillex, Guetta & others - then a well thought out argument.

I don't like the music or those artists as well, but I don't believe they are responsible for the problems of the underground scene

What do these artists have in common with the gentrification processes that take place in so many cities? Those things are decided between city councils, big business and club owners, has nothing to do with the public perception of 'EDM' (why he equates EDM with shitty pop dance is also beyond me; EDM is just Dance Music to me, wheter it's pop or underground).

Also that video of Guetta is a obvious fake, I think he has been Djing for almost 20 years, I'm pretty sure he can beatmatch with no problems.

Patrick122 · 2012-04-20, 13:32:02

The Mainstream and the Underground are symbiotic. Not two parties going on in opposite parts of the city.

The Second coming of Larvi · 2012-04-20, 14:56:36

Some things of the article are right, some wrong. Still an interesting read.

Evangelink · 2012-04-20, 15:08:29

(2012-04-20 14:56:36)The Second coming of Larvi Wrote: Some things of the article are right, some wrong. Still an interesting read.

rickman · 2012-04-20, 15:19:08

Can't stand the mnml ssgs blog, they just seem to have a really poncy and holier-than-thou attitude. Last 3 articles I've read have been how laptops are ruining electronic music, how much of a disappointment the new Monolake album is, and now this - how Aoki, Skrillex and Guetta could potentially ruin electronic music.

Just gtfo.

R0B0 · 2012-04-20, 15:28:37

Not sure what to think about this.

I think they're trying to say that everyone should listen to good music again - where they are the ones to define good music, not the listener.

I do agree regarding this point though:

Quote:I must admit that I do hate the idea of somebody thinking that what I am listening and going to is [Artists mentioned in article]

Fifstar · 2012-04-20, 16:11:11

(2012-04-20 15:28:37)R0B0 Wrote: Not sure what to think about this.

I think they're trying to say that everyone should listen to good music again - where they are the ones to define good music, not the listener.

I do agree regarding this point though:

Quote:I must admit that I do hate the idea of somebody thinking that what I am listening and going to is [Artists mentioned in article]

True, but it has always been like that. The "true artists" (whoever that is) have never been in the focus of the public.

Actually I think there are a lot of people that know "proper" electronic music, probably more then ever before. Maybe overshadowed by the current EDM craze.

Blopolk · 2012-04-20, 18:29:56

An interesting interview, I think it is relevant in this thread. I don't know if it has been posted on this forum yet.

Richie Hawtin interviews Skrillex
http://www.mixmag.net/words/features/ric...s-skrillex

aidan_h · 2012-04-20, 18:34:39

(2012-04-20 15:28:37)R0B0 Wrote: I do agree regarding this point though:

Quote:I must admit that I do hate the idea of somebody thinking that what I am listening and going to is [Artists mentioned in article]

just this morning someone in work mentioned the upcoming Swedish House Mafia/Tinie Tempah/Snoop Dogg/Calvin Harris gig in dublin and said "that's the sort of gig you'd be into isn't it?" the shame. would like to see snoop though.

but anyway. obviously this EDM term has taken off lately as a catch-all term for the big ravey buzz shite in the US, even though the term itself has been around for a while. i think the article is a bit paranoid, there's no point in listing off the big cheesy pop-dance acts that have made it big over the last few decades. i'm stating the obvious here but even the fact that they're responding negatively to that scene means it's not a worry - there'll always be people who want to do something different and meaningful.

and at the end of the day, small-minded people will always listen to shite music.

The Second coming of Larvi · 2012-04-20, 18:39:11

(2012-04-20 15:19:08)rickman Wrote: Can't stand the mnml ssgs blog, they just seem to have a really poncy and holier-than-thou attitude. Last 3 articles I've read have been how laptops are ruining electronic music, how much of a disappointment the new Monolake album is, and now this - how Aoki, Skrillex and Guetta could potentially ruin electronic music.

Just gtfo.

The most hilarious article was the one about "post-techno".

Roland Daggett · 2012-04-22, 10:10:19

People forget that EDM and dance music in general is about having a good time.

and really, who cares.

sushilnash · 2012-04-22, 19:05:55

(2012-04-22 10:10:19)Roland Daggett Wrote: and really, who cares.

This. My opinion is that it's just music. Try not to over analyse it and pontificate about it too much.

Enjoy the music you like, ignore the music you don't like - because there will always be music you don't like.

It just isn't worth fretting over.

healthystarch · 2012-04-22, 19:41:30

But, I think that's the whole point the author is trying to make. That we live in a time where you can no longer ignore the mainstream because of it's repercussions to the underground scene.

Admittedly though the first half / most of the article was the author ranting.

sushilnash · 2012-04-22, 20:29:43

What kind of repercussions? It's not going to destroy the underground scene. We will always have popular music that people on music forums think is shit and we will always have less popular music that is deemed 'better'. Like Patrick122 said - they are symbiotic.

I honestly couldn't give a shit if Guetta, Aoki and Skrillex one day united to form some supergroup and together occupy every single slot in the Top 40 for the rest of eternity with music produced entirely on GarageBand for iPhone. It won't change the fact that I will still be able to listen to music that I enjoy.

Articles bemoaning the state of peoples music tastes today won't stop this from happening. And nor should they. Many of my friends listen to music that would see them thrown to the lions if the musical elitists had their way. But it really doesn't matter to me. I don't judge them for it and I'm not ashamed or embarrassed when people think I will be excited about the new Swedish House Mafia single just because I enjoy some electronic music.

I'm sorry to rant, I didn't realise this post had got so long but I just genuinely don't understand the necessity for all the bitterness and resent towards certain artists/genres/whatever. The point I'm trying to make is that it is just music. Everyone's definition of 'good' or 'bad' music is different and nobody is 'right' or 'wrong' for thinking certain music is 'good' or 'bad'. The whole discussion is even less important than the laptop vs cd vs vinyl djing debate.

And people selling/making/listening to 'shit' music isn't actually doing anyone any real harm. It only becomes a problem when it is made into one by articles like this which only serve to make certain "small-minded people" feel awkward.

fornogoodreason · 2012-04-22, 20:38:12

(2012-04-22 10:10:19)Roland Daggett Wrote: People forget that EDM and dance music in general is about having a good time.

and really, who cares.

pretty sweeping statement

maybe thats true for you but that certainly ins't the way for everyone

healthystarch · 2012-04-22, 20:51:45

Quote:What kind of repercussions? It's not going to destroy the underground scene.

The article mentions the loss of "space" as a type of repercussion.

I think a good scenario to use as an example would be whenever a friend who doesn't listen to a lot of electronic music asks you what type of music you listen to. Even just saying House/Techno conjures up mental images of massives/steve aoki/etc.

The mainstream creates these perceptions of what electronic music is and these perceptions aren't necessarily positive hence in a way, it is 'destroying' the scene albeit in a very abstract way.

PaoloTramezzani · 2012-04-22, 21:05:47

i reckon that'd be true of most, if not all, 'scenes'

i know growing up if you told someone you listened to metal they just thought 'goth' and a proper goth would have been mortified (textbook goth tbf) at being lumped into the same category as 15yo me

i know telling people now that i have no one type of music i'm particularly into and like all sorts they might well think 'oh top 40' but who cares?

sushilnash · 2012-04-22, 22:20:42

I see your point I just don't really understand why it's a big deal at all. So sometimes, some people think that you listen to some music that you don't actually listen to? I'd be surprised if there's anyone on this forum that this never happens to to be honest. I don't see this as destroying anything or even worthy of writing an article about. To me it come across more as a few pages of pompous ranting which only serves to make people feel sidelined.

I'm not having a go at anyone by the way. If I'm coming across as pissy it's more at the whole debate than any person in particular.

John Thorp · 2012-04-23, 01:41:06

I'm fortunate enough to live in a city with as vibrant of a club scene as Manchester, but bar a few stilted conversations with colleagues, I don't feel the 'scene' is being crushed and ruined by mainstream EDM. And although I do have a slightly perverse interest in keeping up with what's big chart wise, I otherwise source all my music from the internet, specialist radio stations, podcasts, and attend clubnight and festivals that reflect that. I think, by and large, now is a great time for dance music on both a wider and more underground scale.

Saying that, I have thought for the past few years that landfill dance is better for mainstream radio than the trad indie rock that was in it's place five years ago, but having since worked in the office of a medical institution that is tuned to a station that plays LMFAO's Pacha On Acid aping 'Sexy & I Know It' seven times a day, I'd now definitely take that back...

Roland Daggett · 2012-04-23, 11:18:19

(2012-04-22 20:38:12)fornogoodreason Wrote:
(2012-04-22 10:10:19)Roland Daggett Wrote: People forget that EDM and dance music in general is about having a good time.

and really, who cares.

pretty sweeping statement

maybe thats true for you but that certainly ins't the way for everyone

What do you think it is then?

(not challenging you, just really want to know)

aidan_h · 2012-04-23, 12:18:19

music as art, performance, self expression, experimentation, escape, release, social commentary, the list goes on. "dance" music can be so much more than just music for dancing.

rickman · 2012-04-23, 12:44:59

(2012-04-23 11:18:19)Roland Daggett Wrote:
(2012-04-22 20:38:12)fornogoodreason Wrote:
(2012-04-22 10:10:19)Roland Daggett Wrote: People forget that EDM and dance music in general is about having a good time.

and really, who cares.

pretty sweeping statement

maybe thats true for you but that certainly ins't the way for everyone

What do you think it is then?

(not challenging you, just really want to know)

I'm with fngr, saying electronic music is just about 'having a good time' kind of makes it sound like the rest of the time you wouldn't listen to it, that it's only purpose is to make you act silly in a club.

Edit: Aidan put it 10x better.

Patrick122 · 2012-04-24, 10:25:37

(2012-04-22 10:10:19)Roland Daggett Wrote: People forget that EDM and dance music in general is about having a good time.

Absolute rubbish.

The Second coming of Larvi · 2012-04-24, 13:20:25

Oh dear here comes the pretentious snobbery.